Shiny new toys. Or not.

[triskellian]

Last weekend, smiorgan and I bought a shiny new DVD recorder with built in hard drive (like a Tivo, only better in some ways and worse in others). And yea, there was much rejoicing. Until, that is, we started trying to actually use it. Then we discovered that, contrary to what the Comet web site had told us, it wasn't capable of changing the channel on our cable box, thus rendering it mostly incapable of doing what we want it to do.

Yesterday, I went into Comet to demand answers. I spent some time talking to a clueless idiot, who kept trying to tell me they didn't sell the product we'd bought (they had one on display), or it was 'the VCR' that could control the cable box, not the DVR (in a unit with no VCR), or that it only applied to satellite, not cable. I finally ended up with a relatively clueful non-idiot, who gave me a customer support number for Pioneer.

I've just spoken to Pioneer. They say it's impossible for any DVR to control a cable box unless they're the same make*. I explain that I have friends with the same cable box and a Tivo (different make from the cable box) which can change the channels. They decide that actually it is possible, but only their high-end model (three times the price of the one we bought) can do it, and that none of the manufacturers put such things in their DVRs because they're trying to keep the price down.

The Comet web site section on DVRs has a line for 'can control set top box', with a tick or a cross for each DVR. Possibly this means that some of them can do it, but I've no idea how to find out which ones actually can.

Our current best option looks like switching to satellite TV and getting Sky+, but I've now sold myself on the idea of a hard drive and DVR in the same box, and I'm reluctant to rock the boat with NTL (who provide our phone and internet as well as cable TV), in case they fuck up and disconnect something else, or keep charging us after we've cancelled. Argh.

*It suddenly occurs to me that this use of 'make' looks really strange.

Comments

[akonken.livejournal.com]

That is astoundingly sucky! Customer service in this country is terrible.

[wimble.livejournal.com]

My Mitsubishi VCR has "set top box control". However...

When I got NTL, I found out it didn't work. There's a little infrared transmitter on the top of the VCR case, and you're supposed to sit the cable/satellite box on top of this, so the IR receiver in the base will pick up the signals.

You may note the basic flaw in this concept.

I went to NTL (in Risinghurst) and explained that my VCR had this feature, and the senior engineer who they sent out to appease me said I was mistaken, and this was wrong. He recommended that I should get a VideoPlus remote control: the sort that has a built in timer, and you can park in front of the video, so that it (effectively) does manual recordings, at the right time. Of course, while it's turning the VCR on, it can also change channel on the cable box.

The junior engineer who was tagging along, after a few minutes of me trying to explain why I didn't want to buy an extra remote (that would almost certainly end up not pointing at the boxes anyway), finally realised that having this functionality built into the VCR was a good idea. But couldn't actually solve the problem :(

On the Pioneer website, it says that your recorder has a remote input, not output. So that other pioneer products can control the recorder. Whether this is the original source of the confusion, I don't know.

None of the Pioneer products appear to have set-top box control, from a brief look at the product list.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kent/]

There is only One True Way to DVR/PVR. Homebrew Linux with MythTV!

http://www.mythtv.org/

[wimble.livejournal.com]

But can it change the channel on the settop box? Doesn't look like it, from a quick look at the blurb!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kent/]

Sure can!

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-8.html#ss8.7

It's probably a bit of a bind to get it all set up. But it's got to be the only real geek option.

[triskellian]

Funnily enough, that's one of smiorgan's preferred options ;-)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kent/]

It's actually probably one of the most sensible options, future wise.

In the US, networks are setting flags on digital signals, preventing them from being recorded long-term, transfered to DVD, or what have you. Looks like it might be the only way to get a PVR solution that does what you want (i.e. tape entire series so that you can keep them) rather than what the networks want (you only being able to keep a recording for a short time, and make no copies) is to build one yourself.

[wimble.livejournal.com]

You're looking at building a PC that's running 24/7, and sitting under your TV. You want quiet. Very, very quiet. I don't know how hard that is to achieve.

You probably knew this was an issue anyway.

My new LCD TV (same range as zandev's) has a fan in it, which I only notice when I turn the power on or off (not standby), as I can suddenly hear the change in noise. The TV fan is actually louder than my TiVo.

But the TiVo uses custom hardware to do the job. I'd expect off-the-shelf kit to be noisier.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

Chap at work who likes ickle computers recommends either this, which he says is pretty quiet:

http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Product.aspx?ProductID=200

or possibly (but you'd have to check whether it has enough oomph), the fanless wonder:

http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Product.aspx?ProductID=201

And this site compares hardware:

http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-view_articles.php

[wimble.livejournal.com]

Darn. Now I'll be wondering about getting one of those too (not for the PVR stuff, just to replace my dead box).

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

The caveat is that he hasn't actually used one to create a DVR yet, he just likes having them around. So you'll have to do your own legwork.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_corpse_/]

Hmm. TiVos come with a little L-shaped, IR-transmitting doofer on a wire that you can stick over the set-top box such that it points at the IR-receiver on said set-top box. It's a somewhat primitive solution, but it works.

I really don't see the point of DVR that can't control the set-top box.

[triskellian]

I really don't see the point of DVR that can't control the set-top box.
This is exactly what I keep saying to various customer service drones. Not to mention the fact that, seriously, no one who doesn't have at least freeview if not cable or satellite is going to buy one of these things.

There is a possible solution in the form of the cable box's built-in timer functionality, but that means setting two things instead of just one ;-(

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kent/]

It's no less functionality than a video recorder. Sure, you [i]want[/i] an automatically downloaded programme guide, that you can point at and say "record that entire series for me", but that's clearly extra bonus functionality.

[wimble.livejournal.com]

Some video recorders do (or did) attempt to control set-top boxes. See my post above.

But, as Dixons' have noticed, times have moved on since the humble VCR. Dixons Group (ie. Currys) still sell VCRs, at a cost of 50 to 130 pounds. Their DVRs start at 150 pounds, and go up to about 500 pounds. If you want a hard drive recorder, you're looking at the 400+ mark.

Now, why would anybody want a hard drive? Presumably, those people who have access to quite a lot of television, and are willing to spend money on their TV access. So, cable TV users (actually, there's the problem: Sky users don't need this, they'll just get Sky+). But that's exactly the group that aren't being supported by this lack of functionality.

If you're spending 250 pounds specifically for having a hard drive in the recorder, I think it's reasonable to expect a little more functionality than just the hard drive.