Blessings

[triskellian]

Someone in the finance department of the institution I work for always finishes his phone calls with 'bless you'. I just took a message from him for an officemate, and received his blessings along with his thanks, and thus was born a poll:

[Poll #1183424]

I 'bless' people who sneeze, and I accept 'blessings' when I sneeze, but being 'blessed' over the phone by a man I have never met, and whose religious inclinations I know nothing about, makes me uncomfortable.

So now I'm trying to work my way out of the contradiction by changing my response to people sneezing (probably to 'gesundheit' or nothing). I dislike the way Christianity is sometimes seen as the default in this country - this seems to me to do a disservice to the people who genuinely are Christian, as well as to people who are not - and I try not to buy into it with my own actions, but sneezing has been an oversight. So no more dispensing blessings on behalf of a god I do not believe in - feel free to remind me of this if you notice me slipping ;-)

Comments

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

My boss tends to bless me after I sneeze.

This is normally instantly followed by an even larger sneeze.

I think I may be allergic to blessings...

[triskellian]

The woman who sits at the next desk from me has rationed my blessings, because I sneeze so much she gets bored of blessing me. One blessing now has to do me for the whole day ;-)

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I have a limit of three sneeze-and-response occurrences - after you're 'thrice-blessed' it can only go downhill!

(imc, if blessed once, sneezes twice more by habit. If not blessed, he stops sneezing. It's curious.)

Multiple sneezes

[almostalady.livejournal.com]

Apparently if you make it to seven sneezes in a row you have an orgasm. Every time someone sneezes more than once in the office we all drop what we're doing and wait with baited breath to see if they'll make it.

Now I say it out loud it probably doesn't reflect very well on any of us as people.

Re: Multiple sneezes

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Doctor doctor, every time I sneeze, I have an orgasm.

What are you taking for it?

Pepper.

Re: Multiple sneezes

[triskellian]

Sadly, it's not true. I often sneeze seven times, and nary an orgasm in sight :-(

Re: Multiple sneezes

[almostalady.livejournal.com]

I am saddened but edified.

;)

[wimble.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly certain I'm allergic to blessings.

But mine's weird. I've noticed that, if blessed, I usually sneeze just before it. It's a pre-emptive allergy.

[white_hart]

I have been known to say "Oh, bless!" when told of someone doing something particularly lovely for another person. Or "bless their little cotton socks", but that's usually slightly sarcastic.

[triskellian]

Argh, yes, I meant to include that sense in the poll. Ah well, twas inevitable.

[dyddgu.livejournal.com]

I was always taught never to discount or reject a blessing; after all, even if the blessee doesn't believe in $deity, the blesser does, and it is a politeness at the very least. At the not-very-least, it's good to hedge your bets...

[triskellian]

Yes; although receiving them sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable rejecting a blessing would strike me as rather rude, unless for some reason I felt the blessing itself was rude (perhaps if it was praising something I had done unwillingly or accidentally and didn't approve of).

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about that - I get very uncomfortable at people 'praying for me' (and I know too many who do, despite knowing it upsets me), and it seems quite odd to be ok with being blessed in that way. But I'm ok with sneezing-response, as it seems de-faithed somehow.

Sometimes I go and get a blessing in church, when the option is there (I was confirmed so could take communion but don't). Sometimes I do actively want to be blessed; most of the time I don't and would resent it slightly in non-sneezing contexts. Gah.

[triskellian]

and I know too many who do, despite knowing it upsets me
Yes, I wouldn't like that at all. Praying for their own ability to deal with things is one thing, but making sure you know they're praying for you even though you don't want them to is just vindictive :-(

[secretrebel.livejournal.com]

Vindictive?!

No, it isn't! I'm also surprised that bopeepsheep is upset by being prayed for. I pray for my friends and I sometimes tell them as much - although I'm more likely to say "thinking of you" than "you'll be in my prayers". But being prayed for isn't a bad thing, it won't steal your soul for my religion and doesn't commit you to anything. And it won't hurt!

What's wrong with being prayed for?

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

There are some deities I don't want messing with my life?

[secretrebel.livejournal.com]

No prayers to Set, Hades or Arawn then?

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

Two of those aren't even British deities!

:)

[triskellian]

Vindictive was a bit strong, sorry.

It's not the being prayed for that I was describing as vindictive, but the deliberately telling someone who they know is uncomfortable about it: "Ha ha, I know you don't like being prayed for, but I'm praying for you anyway, and you can't do anything about it!"

I'm uncomfortable (not 'unhappy', necessarily) with random people telling me they're praying for me, because I don't know how they and their religion feel about me and my lack thereof; I don't want to be prayed for as someone who needs saving by the One True God or anything of the sort, and I don't want to be prayed for by someone who tells me about it expecting me to think of it as anything other than something personal to them.

Which isn't at all to say I'm unhappy about anyone ever praying for me. I know that if you pray for me, for example, you're doing so from a position of respect for my lack of religion, and I'm receiving the knowledge from a position of respect for your non-lack of religion. (FTR, I was thinking about you when I wrote the reply to ar_gemlad below about being prayed for.)

[secretrebel.livejournal.com]

"Ha ha, I know you don't like being prayed for, but I'm praying for you anyway, and you can't do anything about it!"

These are the same people who believe that married woman are "legally Mrs" whatever their name preference is, right? I've honestly never met anyone who went around praying for people to piss them off. I'm now intrigued to try it. I could smile sweetly and say "I'm praying that you'll become less of a bitch, teehee".

I wonder if maybe non-religious people don't know what religious people are doing in prayer (which is really no more than holding the image of the person in their mind / holding them up to God to consider / concentrating their energies on wishing for the bets for that person) and think that it's more critical "dear lord, please save triskellian from hell by opening her mind to thy true word!"

I don't feel it's forcing your beliefs on others to pray for them or to tell them you're praying for them. Wanting to be thanked for your unsolicited prayers would be a bit out of order though.

[triskellian]

I've honestly never met anyone who went around praying for people to piss them off.
Me neither, but I was responding to bopeepsheep saying that she knew people prayed for her despite knowing it upsets her. That sounds to me pretty much like "Ha ha, I know you don't like being prayed for, but I'm praying for you anyway, and you can't do anything about it!"

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

It's circumstantial. From people whose religious beliefs I understand and do not feel oppressed by, I can accept it, although it can and often does make me feel uncomfortable unless I have asked for thoughts/vibes/support etc. If I've asked, I'm actively welcoming it, in whatever form it takes for that person (ok, maybe not blood sacrifice...)

From people who know that I do not share their beliefs and are passively or actively offensive to me as a result [too many people fit this, alas], I am bloody pissed off at their praying for me. Particularly when practical help is refused in favour of praying (even more so this week when I was told off for something I "should have asked for help with 3 years ago" when I BLOODY DID ASK AT THE TIME and got nothing but prayer in return. Thanks a lot, $PERSON!) Being told that a major personality conflict could have been resolved by third party prayer was somewhat offensive, too. People who quietly believe and support, I like. People who want to evangelise at all costs, I don't.

[secretrebel.livejournal.com]

Everyone hates evangelists. I think that's axiomatic whatever they're evangelising for.

I think everyone else must know some really evangelical religious types whereas my most evangelical acquaintances are atheists!

The situation you describe would wind me up too:
"Excuse me, I've fallen over and I can't get up, could you give me a hand?"
"Nope. But I shall pray for you to be less clumsy in the future!"

Gah. The mind boggles.

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

I bless people when they sneeze - or rather I say the words - but it's habit more than anything.
I receive blessings when I go to church, but I would feel uncomfortable being 'blessed' by a random person that I don't know. It seems somewhat of a violation (although that's way too strong a word for my level of feeling) to be blessed without having the option to not receive the blessing.
However, I wouldn't mind someone saying 'peace be with you' (as is our church's custom) or even 'Lord bless you', as that is a kind of intermediary request to God, rather than a 'thou shalt be blessed' demand.
Also, I wouldn't mind someone praying for me without asking - again it seems more intercessionary than demanding.

[triskellian]

Heh. This ties nicely into yesterday's conversation about telekinesis, y'know - is it still a blessing if you have to ask a god to do it for you? ;-)

'Peace be with you' seems entirely unobjectionable to me, but I'm not at all sure how I'd feel about someone praying for me. I think it would depend very heavily on who they were, and what kind of relationship I had with them and their religion. (And also with whether I suspected they were praying for me be saved from my godless ways!)

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

How about if someone prayed for you to be saved from your non-telekinesis ways?

(And is the Force a god or not?!)

[triskellian]

Hmmm. If they were likely to be successful, I think I might be able to tolerate that!

(For the purposes of the poll, the Force is a god if the person who believes in it conceptualises it as a god, and not otherwise ;-)

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

I think if someone 'peace be with you'ed me, I'd go straight into Catholic response mode :)

Peace be with you.
And also with you.
Lift up your hearts.
We lift them up to the Lord.

Or whatever it is; after fourteen years, my memory's a little rusty.

[triskellian]

And while I recognise that, and could possibly have produced 'And also with you' from memory, 'peace be with you' on its own is entirely secular to me. The religious meaning has no essential link with the words.

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

There's no essential link, no, and I'd probably only blink for a second. It's just that I heard it so often at (Catholic) school, and so rarely in any other context.

[secretrebel.livejournal.com]

It is very meet, right and our bounden duty that we should do so...

Yup. Me too!

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

That's in the C of E service too (well, the ASB:Rite B version anyway)...and you got it word perfect, according to my memory of it!

I'm not sure how I feel about the blessings thing.

Personally, I steer clear of deities these days. It's not about whether or not I /believe/ in them - it's simply that even presuming their existence, interest in earthly life, and inclination to pass on enlightenment (which is a pretty big presumption) - whatever they might have had to say originally, it's been so undoubtedly mangled by human bias, hubris, cultural prejudice and downright translation error, that I'm really not getting involved in offering them my faith/worship unless I can get a bug-free & unabridged version! (None of which stops me prodding around at bits of religious writing/essays with interest from time to time - I just do so with my cynic/historian's hat on...)

So, I suppose by following that train of logic - people defiantly praying *to a deity* for me would be a bit like sticking an ex-directory friend on a mailing list you're subscribed to. Just because you think that particular list is great, and you're sure they'll be responsible with your friend's details, doesn't negate the fact that they chose to opt out from receiving such to start with...

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

That's only right if they're a priest, though. If they're a civilian then you should shake their hand and say "peace be with you" back. Although some would argue not if they're Robert Mugabe.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

I think for full marks and best chance of confusing people, you should respond "wa alaykum as-salam".

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I guess for me, blessage on sneezage is pretty much a reflex polite acknowledgement of their suffering... but maybe I should start making it mean something.

Follow-on question: do you say thank you when someone blesses you after sneezing? And if so, what do you feel you're thainking them for?

[triskellian]

I do say 'thank you' and I don't feel that I'm really thanking them for anything, any more than I'm genuinely blessing them if I say 'bless you'. It's just a standard call and response thingie. But now that I'm examining it, I am trying to stop saying 'thank you' as well as 'bless you' and I am reassuring myself that since that 'thank you' is often claimed to be bad luck, it's not impolite to omit it.

(Intersections and contradictions of superstitions and politenesses are probably beyond the scope of this comment ;-)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

often claimed to be bad luck

Ooh, I hadn't heard that. I wonder if thanking for other kinds of blessing is similarly ill-fortuned.

[triskellian]

It allegedly kills a fairy, too. Unless you clap your hands and/or say 'I believe in fairies'.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Ooh, great, I'm up for that in a big way.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

I dislike the way Christianity is sometimes seen as the default in this country

Likewise, but in a modern context I'm not sure I'd take "bless you" as Christian (particularly since I use it myself as a non-Christian).

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

I used to work for a guy who was quite strongly Catholic, and who did something similar - he'd finish every phonecall with "God bless you." Personally, I did a minor double-take first time, and then shrugged it off, having spent eleven years at a C of E school. A friend who also worked there (who was non-religious but came from a fairly strict Muslim background) found it a little uncomfortable. It was, I think, the first time she'd had direct dealings with Christianity. She tended to go, "Er, thanks very much," in response - which amused me.

We talked about it once, because she wanted to know what she was supposed to say. I suggested that, IMO, it was his default way of speaking, and that he didn't really expect a response. That she should just take it as... meant kindly.

And I tend to alternate "Bless you" and "gesundheit".

[sumbitch.livejournal.com]

"Bless you" seems entirely secular to me, more of a verbal tic than anything else, like "how are you?" in a situation in which it's clearly not a quest for information.

On the other hand, there's a checker at my local supermarket who always says "have a blessed day!" While I know she means it kindly, I hate it. Why? Because chances are she'd feel less warmly towards me if she actually knew my lesbian Jewish self. Therefore, it's always a slightly alienating experience (like all the people who wish me Merry Christmas, or assume I have a husband).